Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.07 “Offspring”

Offspring

Here is the podcast covering episode seven of season three “Offspring”.

You can download it here.

Please leave feedback by commenting on the post here, emailing the angelrewatch@gmail.com or sending a voicemail to 206-203-3276. And please leave a review on iTunes.

Next week, we will be covering episode eight of season three, “Quickening”, where Darla’s pregnancy grows more serious and Holtz narrows in on Angel.

Advertisements

6 responses to “Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.07 “Offspring””

  1. originaljoseph says :

    Great podcast on Offspring – I have a couple late thoughts.

    • originaljoseph says :

      PS this is Joseph!

      1. I would have liked to see something indicating Angel is thinking about the curse. Since no one knows what perfect happiness means, Angel might be one really good day away from murdering all his friends. Frankly, given the gypsies’ motivation in including that part of the curse, if I were Angel I’d be worried that the bar for “perfect happiness” is lower than you might think. Hopefully Angel or Cordy will bring it up soon.

      2. I’m not sure why Cordy was so mad at Angel, unless the writers are trying to show she has feelings for him as well. So he had sex with an ex and didn’t tell her – it’s not enough of Cordy’s business that she has the right to get angry that Angel didn’t tell her.

      3. If Andrew takes requests, I’d love to see a count of the number of times an Angel character talks about how wonderful Fred is. I think this was the third episode in a row.

  2. Cathleen says :

    Hi guys,

    Great podcast. Few thoughts on Offspring:

    Always love a good flashback from Angelus’s past. Interesting to see Darla coming to Angelus’s rescue. Gotta love a prophecy popping up at just the right time that it’s about to come forth. Liked Gunn’s style of convincing the guy to give them the scroll. Angel realising he had feelings for Cordy was true to his character that he would be oblivious to his own feelings. The “We love you Angel” scene with the gang was pretty funny as Angel tries to work out how he feels for Cordy and the rest of the gang come straight out and say it. Darla showing up pregnant seemed like a typical TV show move to keep us guessing if Angel & Cordy could get passed it to be together. Cordy’s over-reaction about Angel lying to her about sleeping with Darla was too much as she has no right to be angry. Or was it the writers way of saying Cordy is in even more denial over her growing feelings for Angel. Angel’s baby having a soul wasn’t quite the twist the writers probably thought it was. Julie Benz was terrific in that scene. The Holtz return from the “dead was a good move, someone with a big grudge against Angel. Not a big bad but a villain none-the-less.

    Cheers!

    Cathleen

  3. Cathleen says :

    Hi guys,

    Quickening
    A set up episode that could have been better to progress the story further. Felt like we are just waiting for this baby to come along. Thank god Darla turned up a few days before the baby is due rather than several months. Sahjarn is an interesting demon, liked the way he described the world as it is at present time to Holtz but we don’t learn why he’s helping Holtz. The gang coming up with ways to destroy the baby and suggesting it might have two heads and skitters was funny. I liked the scene at the hospital, Angel & Darla learning it’s a human boy was special. But how did no one but Fred notice the vampires circling them? And did no one explain to Fred the special powers of vampires having incredible hearing when explaining vampires to her? The baby’s affect on Darla is a nice touch. Looking forward to the Angel/Holtz confrontation next episode.

    Cathleen

  4. Angel watcher says :

    Same person as comment on the review. Don’t worry, wont continue to read or comment, just this once. Here are some arguments about why I see Fredless as an average episode.

    1) The dialog/use of camera etc. makes many points in the story seem obvious (from seeing other TV you can recognize these hints and what they usually lead to), and the story follows the typical without making any twists. E.g. focus on object = that object will be important in saving the day, Fred not knowing her place in the group = Fred will figure out her place before the episode is over, parents portrayed as possibly scary who act mysterious = not scary parents, everyone sad that Fred leaves = Fred will return. Its common clichés. Many episodes of Angel have this, but they often have one little thing that goes different than expected. I imagine that Fred’s parents is intended to be that thing here. They use a lot of screentime on them being possibly not good. For me it becomes too many elements saying “bad parents” (the group thinking they seem so, the parents mysterious behavior etc.) to make it interesting. If they were bad it they used a lot of time stating that they were, if they were good they followed typical hints. None of this is bad, but it doesn’t to me make an outstanding episode.

    2) For a character centric episode did we learn much about Fred, is the plot about her or the characterization of her especially great? It works with Fred’s problems and relationship with the group. I learned that she is smart, can solve problems, has a loving family, has trauma from Pylea. All good, but RM w/a Vu or Warzone did the same with and thought me just as much about Cordy or Gunn. For me Fred fits into a trope/a type of character we can find many of. Fred is an example of genius smart babbling nerd just as Cordy in Buffy was an example of the mean schoolgirl. I didn’t see any aspect about Fred that makes her different from other genius babbling characters. At the end of the episode when her trauma is solved, how different is Fred from early Willow? They are smart in different areas, but both babbling, shy, nerd, childlike, cutesy mannerisms. For me other characters came across as having something that made them a bit different than others of their type, or more real in their character centric episodes.

    Fred babbles science quickly words almost every time she speaks and writes equations on walls. To me it becomes a bit over-the-top, what smart TV-characters typically do, not what a smart real life person does. I guess i mean that there must be other ways to portray “very smart”.For me they also take her childlikeness a bit too far. (You can say it comes form Pylea, but to me she is just as childlike in the rest of the series/in flashbacks.) Nothing wrong with a childish personality, but storywise she must be mid 20’s and was a high level student. Details like how they dress her doesn’t to me match that. Its also another trait that is very typical for the genius smart or precious/important to the group characters. It might be irrelevant for others that characters in this genre seem real. To me it just became a big difference between her and the others, she became clearly a TV-character/trope compared to them. (I think Amy Acker is great, nothing negative meant towards her!)

    Fred’s trauma is to quickly solved for me. I absolutely buy her thinking of Pylea as a fantasy to cope. But its like she meets her parents, has a breakdown, is over it and saves the day. She has faced years of fear in a world very different from this one. Shouldn’t there be any lasting effects, take time to deal with when you realize, take time to adjust to the normal world? Like an arch instead of a single episode plot. If the point of the episode is Fred’s trauma this becomes too simple for me.

    None of this is bad, but it doesn’t to me compare to the characterization of Spike in Fool for Love, or the relationship between Angel and Darla shown in Darla.

    3) In Lonely Heart/Blind Date/Darla I get an impression of what type of stories or interactions with Angel these characters might have, what topics might be explored through them. Fredless tells me that Fred is now a part of the group, I know she is genius smart, but I have no idea why she is added or what her function in the show is.

    I disagree that Fred has been well used up to this point. To me its like Darla. Adding her, but going many episodes without really using her. Before Fredless I saw Fred in single scenes that told me she was smart and affected from Pylea. I didn’t learn about her except that she is smart, almost no exploration of or changes in her trauma, nothing done about that she is back in LA (like finding her family), nothing about her life before Pylea, scenes but not much building of relationships, no starting of a story, no indication of why another character is added. For a main character I prefer a new character to get focus/an introduction that highlights why he/she is added, teaches me something about them, makes them seem layered.

    4) I don’t buy the character interactions, how everyone adores her or sees her as integral to the group. Yes, she has been together with them a while and she has helped them. But so has others, they have known Lorne for a while, he helps them, has talents no one in the groups has, they don’t adore him or need him in the group. You might say that Fred is adorable. But if you think of the writing: The AI group are very different people. They have helped/met a lot of people but none of them has reacted this way to others. Why should all of them react this way to Fred? Shouldn’t e.g. Cordy and Gunn be fascinated by/like to be around different people? What in the episode makes it believable that Fred should grab them as no one they have met has? Do they even know her that much at the end of Fredless? The other friendships has taken some time to build. When Wesley and Gunn came it took a while before they were accepted as group members. That seemed as more believable character interactions. Does Fred have more competence to bring to the group than Lorne or Wesley (who were not immediately invited in)? Is smart in physics even a necessarily competence for a demon agency? This comes across as the writing pushing how great and important she is.

    • originaljoseph says :

      Hey Angel Watcher,welcome – I hope you stick around. Everyone loves new viewpoints and conversation, and we’d love to hear what you think on the other episodes.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: