Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.05 “Fredless”


Here is the podcast covering episode five of season three “Fredless”.

You can download it here.

Please leave feedback by commenting on the post here, emailing the or sending a voicemail to 206-203-3276. And please leave a review on iTunes.

Next week, we will be covering episode six of season three, “Billy”, where we find out who was in that box.


3 responses to “Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.05 “Fredless””

  1. Joseph says :

    Billy was an odd episode. I liked Cordy and Lilah a lot, and in general, I like it when the writers do the early seasons Buffy thing of having the supernatural threat be some metaphor for a real world issue.

    But the execution of the Billy virus felt “Beer Bad” level clumsy, especially the dialogue from the various guys under the influence. I think this would have been much more effective if they had played it like J August Richards did – use more natural dialogue, but have the guys get increasingly hostile and resentful. Maybe the writers didn’t think we would understand it was sexism without the goofy dialogue.

    I thought the chase with Wesley and Fred is this show in a nutshell. The show still really likes to mine dramatic tension from women in peril, but it’s giving the women a lot more agency about it than it did in early seasons. I guess it’s in Wesley’s character to get overly verbose about his sexism, but it sure was annoying. (Except for “I have a theory about how stupid you are”, which was legitimately chilling and scary. Well, and I guess Wesley’s picking on Fred about where Cordy was – was that how his father belittled him?)

    Last point: I totally don’t buy the way Angel explained his resistance to Billy’s effects. Angel claims that he’s past petty things like resentment of women, but that’s pretty much the core of Buffy season two – it drove Angelus CRAZY that Buffy had power over him as Angel, and he spent half the season systematically undermining that power. Then, as Angel, he’s a total White Knight. I’ll buy that Angel has enough darkness in him to hate Billy and women, nut not that he’s evolved past sexism.

  2. meags says :

    My biggest problem with the episode is that the idea that all men are dormant misogynists is really insulting, and pretty ridiculous. That is misogynist in itself really, because it implies that it’s is part of man’s evolutionary biology to be dominant over women and to treat them as animals, and men have “overcome” this primordial feature of themselves. There are matriarchal societies that are so different from ours, and so to me that ends that idea right there.

    The dialogue is clunky, because they are trying to squeeze this horror element into an analogy for domestic abuse, and it really doesn’t fit. Domestic abuse doesn’t happen suddenly. A more apt metaphor here is maybe serious brain injury that alters someone’s personality. There are actually many other analogs they could have alluded to. Maybe violent pornography (since Billy likes to “watch”… ugh so creepy).Or even just that Billy’s raging misogyny and psychopathic behavior made him want to play out these scenes in real life, but not get his hands dirty. But implying that most men are barely keeping it together in the face of the temptation to rape and beat women?

    Wesley’s scenes, particularly at the end, are both odd and emotional. I could see him second-guessing himself because he physically did try to murder Fred, and would be terribly broken up about it especially since he has romantic feelings for her, and well – she isn’t going to want to be alone with him now, right? But would he really think he was always a mood change away from murder? In that case, he should probably cut himself off from humanity, in much the same way Angel had been doing up until very recently.

    Angel’s final conversation with Cordelia about how he didn’t succumb to Billy’s hate rage don’t make much sense. Really, a Hulk-esque “I’m always full of rage” might have been better, although I’m not sure it’s necessarily true – unless the rage is self-directed. I could also see a “I’m used to fighting back evil since a demon lives inside me 24/7” reasoning be given. But it does seem pretty unbelievable that Angel has ascended onto a higher emotional plane when he is consistently shown as petty, broody, and childish.

    Sorry this got so long. 😀

  3. cainimtruax says :

    Thoughts on Billy

    First the parts of this that worked? It really was terrifying to see Wesley go psycho. Denisoff turned in a performance that was brilliant in giving chills. So a couple of points for being scary. And I’ll forgive the horror cliches(like um Fred why sit down just because he says so, just run, and preferably out of the building.

    But what was the point of this?

    That all men are primodially misogynistic monsters? And that Angel is the way to move past this. Forgive me if I reject those ideas. So what else can this be trying to say?

    And let’s talk about Lilah. The writers know she’s a villain right? But the teaser scene is asking us to be afraid for her. Oh no a bad guy who tortured Cordelia is in trouble I better keep watching. Ugh. And do we really know Gavin well enough to say he wasn’t just attacking her off his own volition? Thanks musical cue for letting us know smiling guy was involved.

    Seeing aside all of this we did get some great performances from Carpenter and Romanov and it was creepy and I did enjoy Lilah’s part in the resolution so…

    58 out of 100

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