Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.04 “Carpe Noctem”

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Here is the podcast covering episode four of season three “Carpe Noctem”.

You can download it here.

Please leave feedback by commenting on the post here, emailing the angelrewatch@gmail.com or sending a voicemail to 206-203-3276. And please leave a review on iTunes.

Next week, we will be covering episode five of season three, “Fredless”, where Fred’s parents come to LA.

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8 responses to “Angel Rewatch – Podcast for 3.04 “Carpe Noctem””

  1. thehistoryofbyzantium says :

    Sorry I’m one behind. Just saw Carpe Noctem. If you have time for a tangent. Let’s say Angel dies in the old man’s body. Would the new Angel, with Marcus’ personality be affected by the curse?

  2. cainimtruax says :

    Hey guys I haven’t had much to say lately, mostly because these last to episodes have joined She, Expecting and Sense and Sensitivity to create my least favorite five episodes so far.

    Quick thoughts

    That old gang of mine.

    I didn’t buy Gunn’s internal conflict at all. My primary reason? LORNE. Charles has interacted enough with The Host often enough that he must be a moron not to know that all demons aren’t the same. The version of Gunn that I like isn’t the one portrayed here. I agree with you guys about everything else in this one especially that ludicrous resolution.

    50 out of 100

    Carpe Noctem

    William said just about everything I thought while watching this swill. A couple things to add. Marcus is a murderer and a rapist and the heroes just walk way and let him live? There must have been a better way to punish this monster.

    And the “I have to pee” joke really annoys me. There is no indication that the people in this body swap start to take on each other’s personalities so why in the world would Angel say this. Stupid stupid stupid.

    35 is generous

    I say 34 out of 100

  3. Travis says :

    It’s been awhile since I sent some feedback so here we go, Fredless. I think this was good and much needed episode. Up to this point I wasn’t sold on Fred, but this episode let’s her finally be free of her shell, or should I say cave/room. Some great funny moments like Cordelia and Wesley’s now iconic reenactment of Buffy and Angel, and Angel’s comment about the severed head being made out of lead after he threw it, just to name a few. The mantis monster of week felt very tacked on, but for me the core of the story really worked. The symbolic scene of Fred painting over her drawing of Angel on the horse is one of my all time favorite Fred moments.

  4. Joseph says :

    A couple more thoughts on Carpe Noctum.

    I apologize to anyone who I offended by thinking that Marcus’s “obviously” was funny – that joke is based on a stereotype about dress/ I didn’t mean to cause any offense, but I’m sorry and I’ll work on that.

    In the episode’s limited defense, I think “homophobia” is a little strong. I do think the show does deserve a little credit for what it doesn’t do – Marcus isn’t panicked by the idea that someone thinks he’s gay, and he doesn’t seem to have any problem with Wesley, and Wesley doesn’t suddenly panic at the implication that he’s gay. Those are the jokes that a cruder show like Family Guy would have gone for. The Marcus-Wesley conversation isn’t actually funny, but it’s basically Three’s Company style romantic farce, and they play it the same as they might with any other two characters. Since there was no gay panic, that scene would have looked about the same if Marcus thought that Cordy or Lilah was Fred and tried to let them down easily.

    Lastly, in hindsight, is Spike’s narration in In the Dark more problematic than we thought at the time? In addition to joking that Angel is gay, Spike calls Angel a magnificent pouf who prances and loves nancy-boy hair gel. I hadn’t thought about it then, but now that I am thinking about it, was the show out of line?

  5. Joseph says :

    Fredless:

    – As Gene Shalit might say, there were a few things that “bugged” me about Fredless.

    – First, a disclosure. I don’t like Fred. I think her character is too broad and she’s not realistic or funny. Most of the time, the nerd speak rubs me the wrong way, like counting out the meters this episode or “I was just quoting pi”. So I apologize for being waspish, but it was painful to watch everyone sitting in the office talking about how much they loved and missed Fred.

    – Second, the misdirect took a lot of the emotional sting out of this episode. Even worse, they have Fred’s dad joking about gay bashing in the first half of the misdirect, then have everyone talk about how great he is in act two? I suppose he’s great as long as you don’t try to wear eye shadow in his town.

    – Third, what the hell, Lorne? Given Lorne’s advice to keep running, what are we supposed to think about his ability to put people on their paths? Was it necessary for her to go to the bus station so that her mother could save her from a bug? If so, why did he weasel so much when Angel asked where Fred went?

    – Fourth, the bug looked dumb.

    • cainimtruax says :

      Just read you Fredless comments after I posted mine. I try not to read current episode comments until after I post mine. I completely agree with your comments about Mr. Burkell. The me of ten years ago found him charming. The me that watched this episode last night found him offensive.

  6. cainimtruax says :

    Thoughts on Fredless

    I remember enjoying this one years ago and this time around I enjoyed it again particularly the lovely closing scene.

    But oh that Roger Burkell. He made a couple of cringe worthy comments that in light of the Spike comments Joseph mentions above and the homophobia in Carpe Noctem have made me begin to wonder about this show.

    Or are we just seeing a tone that is horribly dated? Can we hold a show’s backwards thinking against it if we are examining it from a different era?

    And aren’t the Burkells stereotypes as well?

    Has TV made much progress in the past 10 years?

    Am I thinking about this too much?

    Oh and Why would Gunn think that head was paper mache? How does that make any sense.

    Sigh 60 out of 100

  7. Cathleen says :

    Hi guys

    Found the podcast a number of weeks ago and have been busy catching up.

    A few thoughts on the series so far:

    Season one – an ok start to the series, not as much character development for the regulars and recurring guest cast that I would’ve expected, a few too many monster of the week episodes which seemed to follow the pattern of the first few years of Buffy rather than work out its own story. The difference between the good episodes and the bad episodes was quite huge. The season relied too heavily on crossovers from Buffy (I Will Remember You, Five By Five, Sanctuary & In the Dark). They are all in my top 5 episodes of Angel season one. It wasn’t until the end of Sanctuary that it really took a stand on its own but then only had 3 episodes left for the season to make it its own show. I would’ve like to have seen this happen midway through the season.

    Season two – Bringing Darla back and the effects it caused Angel and the gang was a great move. Having to watch Angel brood over Darla did get to be too much but it was interesting to see him show a darker side that didn’t involve Angelus. The ‘filler’ episodes in the middle of the Angel & Darla storyline – Shroud of Rahmon, Happy Anniversary, The Thin Dead Line seemed to see the series go back to the season one style bad episodes. Then once Darla left and Angel went back to working with the gang we got some more bad episodes, Disharmony, Dead End, before the Pylea storyline. Pylea was pretty much a forgettable storyline. At no point did I think the gang was in any real danger and wouldn’t find a way back to Los Angeles. The only good part of the Pylea storyline was Fred.

    Heartthrob – It was interesting to see more of Angel’s backstory but James & Elizabeth were incredibly annoying. They were definitely a pathetic version of Spike & Drusilla and had no impact when James & Elizabeth bit the dust. Darla been pregnant – hella surprised on first watch. Gave a sense that the series was heading in a good direction this season.

    That Vision Thing – Good to see a Cordy ep, even though Angel took over halfway through to save her at any cost. Nice to see the impact the visions could end up causing Cordy long term. I liked the decision to leave the question up in the air about who the guy Angel released from the prison was, what he did to be placed there and what he could do now he’s back in our dimension.

    That Old Gang of Mine – Another forgettable Gunn episode for me. I’m just not a fan of War Zone, First impressions and this one but despite this I do like Gunn as a character. It was weird bringing up Alonna after all this time and seeing how she still has quite an effect on Gunn. I think this storyline would’ve been better served closer to First Impressions or maybe part of the reason Gunn left his street gang for good before joining the gang on the trip to Pylea.

    Carpe Noctem – Aside from Fred’s part in this ep and seeing David Boreanaz clearly having fun playing a completely different character from Angel there was nothing good about this episode. Marcus is a creep and watching the gang not realise something was wrong with Angel was painful to watch.

    Fredless – A step up from the two previous episodes. I enjoyed Fred’s first centric episode but knowing they would find a way for Fred to come back after she left and find her place in the gang was quite predictable. Still seems unbelievable that anyone could’ve tracked Fred to living at the hotel with the gang after she disappeared for five years. Having Gunn think the demon head was paper mache just made him look dumb. Cordy saying she missed Fred’s parents instead of Fred felt like old-school Cordy. But what was great about this episode was seeing normal caring parents for just about the first time in the Buffyverse, possibly even the Whedonverse. Aside from Buffy’s mum, there has been no parents shown on the shows in a positive light. Buffy’s dad left his family, Xander’s parents are drunks, Willow’s mum doesn’t know anything about her daughter, Tara’s dad told her she was part-demon, Wesley’s dad locked him up in his youth, Cordy’s dad got busted for tax evasion. I didn’t like Mr. Burkle’s comments to Lorne in Caritas but aside from that it felt like a relief that their were finally parents in the Buffyverse that actually cared for their child and were willing to do anything to find her.

    Looking forward to commenting more as you progress through the series and listening to your podcasts.

    Cathleen

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